Famous Calvinists - Coming In The Clouds I have no problem with thatno one likes to be labeled. Rank No. Ive never spent much time self-identifying as a Calvinist. Everything just fell apart. We are glad that you do. We often find it difficult to tolerate uncertainty, so we do anything to avoid that. I have to admit-this made me giggle. Yet why do I still love Jesus, the Bible and read so many Christian authors? To breath it. Even if they do end up with Pythonesque theology that embarrasses more thoughtful calvin sympathisers. That is why I do not now, nor will I ever, follow a man. The last point of Calvinism we'll be dealing with is the perseverance of the saints. A Word to My Calvinist Friends. This one may sound like ad hominem at first blush, but I mean it more as an observation of the . Does not a little yeast leaven the whole batch? Notice the implicit point: only THEY really bring glory to God. Almost every theological viewpoint, and every Christian denomination, has a corresponding Systematic Theology book that reflects their positions on different topics of Scripture. I think people are blaming a theology when the real evil is in the hearts of men. As my parents were from Scotland, NIreland.we all related to bring a wee bit different. That article Early Jesus Freak Movement Hollywood Free Paper country As Sixties(TM) as Rowan & Martins Laugh-In and then some. It was your comment about illogic that got me to thinking. I will say they are much more composed personalities. Argo. Prior to learning of the YRR thing, I actually tried to force my self to accept the thinking as presented by these men. Maybe Im wrong on that. And honestly, it doesnt upset me when they do. http://www.seattlepi.com/news/us/article/Head-of-Southern-Baptist-school-marks-20-years-4780941.php. Feel free to correct me if Im wrong. Buuuuuut the problem with this is that trying to pin a Calvinist down on what doctrines they actually believe is like trying to hold a wriggling cat using hands stuck in oven mitts (not that wed be putting the cat in the overgross, and, uh, cruel). I am a non-Calvinist (not quite an Arminian either) who lives and moves and has my being amongst Calvinists, the overwhelmingly dominant brand in my neck of the woods. John Hagee. This website helped me tremendously as a recovering Piperite, and Im so grateful that I dont have to believe that God CAUSED this illness for some mysterious glory. Yes, God WILL receive glory somehow from it, but thats not his grand purpose. But in doing so, I fear that people who might get a lot of benefit from Calvinism might be rejecting it for the wrong reasons. Even though I have now separated myself from that belief system, connecting with those words brought me right back to those intense feelings of God was right there watching me get abused and didnt do a darn thing about it. So I posted my abuse story/Calvin connection and have tried to keep that thread safe. The Calvinism debate thread is a great place to really get into the nitty gritty of those tough issues. I disagree. This is also (imo) true for many, many people. And if the term is ambiguous, then I its wise to be careful and specific in criticism. The following are theologians, listed alphabetically, who are non-Calvinist in their soteriology. Both my husband and I knew the difference at this point and began to look for another church in Dallas which we found in Bent Tree Bible Church. Ed was not so big on doctrine. Ever. Thats what I think the intention of this blog post was. I get what youre saying. That they are the sole divine recipients of truth, again. I think Heb. Recommendations for Non-Calvinistic Resources from - RadioPublic Calvins instituted Christian Religion is very much a place for the wise and learned, and hidden from little children. CALVIN!, The Bible? On the other thread, I commented about the issue of sovereignty and the misunderstanding a lot of people have about the concept of sovereignty. When theology is inaccessible, it is not because God himself is inaccessible, but because it is expressed using made-up words whose meaning is known only to the in-crowd. c) I want to move conversations about abuse beyond the Calvinism discussion because I think its a massive red herring. I often wonder how Sproul Sr. feels about the fact that his son has gone soooooo far off the theological rails. I err on the side of allowing too much now, just because the value of finally being able to have a voice is so huge! Happy Holidays. This is not the Calvinist thought process. This, of course, is totally irrelevant. Does there need to be a correction? Jimmy Draper. Last year when I was sued, I had heard of Calvinism, but didnt really know what and how it had affected/influenced me personally. Cant wait to read the comments section of Dees forthcoming post to Calvinists. That Cals portray Cal in so many ways, even on the same points, adds another layer of confusion to the conversation for me. But something has changed in the last number of years. However, when a woman has been abused for years by the men in her life, its going to be natural that she lashes out at men and not feel safe around them. This is simply human and not related to social faux pas. 1911. Mark Driscoll, John Piper and Tim Keller megachurch preachers and important evangelical authors are all Calvinist. But the guy still strikes me as the I have Everything figured out! A final troubling trend I believe plagues America's "Calvinist revival" is egotism. But RC, as a neo-Cal intellectual, is, I think, trying to avoid what so many Calvinists do with regularity, and have no problem with it: concede that at the root of what they believe are ideas that simply cannot be reconciled. I think it means that God is aware of every molecule (which He created, of course), and that none of them escapes His will. ISTM, that the fundamental issue in abuse is betrayal. 2) Everything that happens is scripted by God and is good for us. As Ive said, Id prefer not to discuss Calvinism at all. Was your family Christian? An Introduction To Calvinism & Arminianism | Tim Challies And so, I also agree with Nick on this: To me, being fed pat answers is more analogous to being fed sawdust because fibre is good for you.. Although occasionally hurt by these accusations of heresy, he responds like a gentleman. of one. But I can say, knowing what I now know about God, that God would never ever ever have set the evil I suffered in place intentionally. I have a couple key thoughts (key to me anyway) which have taken form as I have extricated myself from reformed theology over the past year: 1. Hes describing man, not God. In general, my beliefs do align with RC Sproul. Can we not make allowance for Gods ways to be different from ours? God doesnt have internal conflicts, though sometimes the Bible portrays it this way to make a point. People, including you, got upset from Calvinists just stating their views. Reformed theology celebrates the glory of God. Or at least they start to think they have the powers and rights (divine?) What about what God foreordained someone else to say that is different. #7 Scott J, Jan 10, 2006 But the main thing is that Ive been a Calvinist for a long time- probably 15 years. I dont see you behaving as a bully. Wondering What Denominations Are Calvinist? Here's the Answer Yet, no matter how hard I tried to understand, I just couldn't get there. You should consider it though it is a pretty long video. (Mark 12:28-34, ESV). There is a new evangelism taking place. Any benefit we get from His death (i.e., salvation) is great, but if we act like we are too focused on salvation, we are selfish and may not even be saved.. Im just genuinely puzzled about this. But maybe there is just too much pain and hurt for that to be possible. Until these last five years, Ihad thought it possible for everyone to get along, even attend the same church. They alone have truth in ALL things, by Gods special revelation. I know. Could the person have simply avoided it and gone to someplace else without even making the comment? These include Park Street Church in Boston with Paul Toms as pastor; Chapel Hill Bible Church in North Carolina with Jim Abrahamson as pastor and Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Dallas with Pete Briscoe as pastor. Calvinism did not start with John Calvin. Is not the whole batch totally leavened regardless of the amount of yeast? from what Ive seen here, youve always been a gentleman and tolerant of others who do not believe as you do. 5 Baptist theologians every pastor should read - Southern Equip Some of his hearers might have been scared as, uh, heck. Okay, that makes it a little less OCD. The rule about not eating the fruit was just as much an opportunity for Adam/Eve to choose good as it was to choose evil. But I can tell you this, there are times in the past where I would have characterized the tone of TWW as anti-Calvinist. They tend to become kings when in power too long. Jeff S wrote: Their scholarship seems smug and oddly ineffectual (quoted by one mother) and yes, it later became apparent that The Way was actually doctrinally aberrant and yet through this article you were drawn to Jesus, so maybe this suggests God sometimes uses unlikely means to create new believers? The Reformed doctrine of salvation is commonly represented by the acrostic TULIP (also known as the five points of Calvinism ): T - total depravity. I looked them up just long enough to figure out that Christus Victor is not necessarily the same as the ransom theory (I do kinda wish I knew more about this, since it gets lobbed at C. S. Lewis a lot because of LWW). Green 27. I know theories of the atonement impact stuff, but I just cant get into that whole debate for some reason. That is a love that does not send babies or the mentally unable to hell, nor is it a love that creates people predestined to hell, but rather gives them a choice and only when repeatedly rejected, judges people for their rejection of him. I accept with humility that there are things that I cannot understand. One section was exploring happiness. Once we agree that all ideas have the exact same chance of being wrongwe have merely held the door open for ANOTHER, and even more sinister and vicious, arbiter of truth to be released: the power of the keys, which is nothing more than the power of DESTRUCTIONand with this, the powers that be continue to be the powers that be. Its more that the molecule is not outside of his authority. considering you are being so charitable and I called Calvinism a horrible doctrine. We are very clear that we do not see men as the only abusers nor abuse inherently a gender issue. Ive become a more capable musician as a result. Youd be shocked! My bet would be that some (many?) All this does is affirm theism itself. It needs to be dealt with directly and honestly, a complicated complex mature topic. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said to him, You are right, Teacher. His attitude impresses me. 2) Dee, all this proves is you are a weirdness magnet. If all that they know are talking points, then it is hard to back them up. Its like asking the old question: Can God create a rock to heavy for Him to throw? So far, we both agree. It is nice to meet someone who remembers.If you dont mind me prying, where did you grow up? There are days I really have to remind myself that God still very much loves people who have little love or respect for me or other Arminian Christians. Sort of like reading Cliff Notes instead of the book. Calvinism | Desiring God The people you refer to are not hard-bitten Marxists or Dawkinsists; they ardently profess Christian faith and judge you in Jesus own name. . Some of the things he did/wrote/said kind of raise alarms, if Im honest the whole Servetus Thing, for instance, doesnt make anybody look good however you spin it. If the Bible is Gods Word, and we are capable of understanding it, where else can we go to answer the deeper questions except to ourselves? He/She needs to be able to clearly understand why it is damaging and to openly explain how he/she does not hold to those ideas, which have been so awful as to cause some among us to become suicidal. And I *know* that I sounded every bit as naive as those kids in the article. It is very easy to proof text Calvin to prove any point you want to make about what he believed or didnt believe. If the person makes the comment because he/she believes its important that others should know that there are people who can be hurt by that conversation in real life, how should that affect the online discussion? I have found peace in accepting that I will not fully understand in this life, and maybe not even in the life to come. Oy. Thank you, Deb. If youll forgive my expressing it so poorly meaning no disrespect to either of the TWW Jeffs nor to any other person who considers that Calvins conclusions were much the same as theirs would be its extraordinary how quickly the worldly order re-asserted itself. The greatness of God must be understood in a different way because this construct caused harm so deep that it tore into the core of me and made me wish for eternal death. (for the record.). If we are acting primarily out of love, this becomes good works and is worthless. Here is a quick bio on Olson from Wikipedia. Craigs got it right. I sympathise with Jeff about all the tar spattered in his direction. They should not get to define theology that has been around much longer than them. In fact, as Sproul describes what he sees as the sovereignty if God, his view is the latter- that God exercises his sovereignty by choosing what he allows and what he does not. Based on my experience, the experience of Oasis both of us who have had very difficult childhood abuse experiences and other stories Ive been reading, especially of teens abandoning their faith, having emotional breakdowns and even suicide, why do we need to focus on Calvins system? which is really funny because in my experience, the Lutheran church never ever mentions either of those things. Change). . @ Muff Potter: It is, imo, impossible to pin any of this down in some sort of neat and easy formula, but the Lord knows, we (humans) keep trying! External Leaders When members begin to question the fidelity of their pastor's teaching, they rarely (regrettably) go to their pastor. By wrong, do you mean untrue? CALVIN! IMO he has helped destroy the Southern Baptist Convention, but no one dare tell him this. Your voice is missing! Your voice is missing! An infant does not want, nor desire steak. I guess a lot of folks dont really know that its possible to be non-Calvinist but emphatically not Arminian. This is why I dont like to appeal to the belief systems of RCC, reformers, or Charlemagne. That is biblical. And I kind of doubt youre on call to give your Testimony in church; it just doesnt jibe with the Conventional Christianese Testimony. Evangelicals Find Themselves in the Midst of a Calvinist Revival That is, the non-Calvinist can say whatever he or she wants and the Calvinist just has to take it. Where Did All These Calvinists Come From? - The Gospel Coalition I am much more hyper in my comments than they are.
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